The Enduring Value of the Humanities, with Dr. Eric Corty

Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Dr. Eric Corty, director of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences, about his 29 years as a Behrend faculty member and administrator. Originally recorded February 28, 2022. 

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Ralph Ford: 0:05

I'm Dr. Ralph Ford, Chancellor of Penn State Behrend and you are listening to Behrend Talks. Today, my guest is Dr. Eric Corty. Eric is the Director of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences. But he's also a professor of psychology. Welcome to the show, Eric.

Eric Corty: 0:22

Thank you very much, Ralph.

Ralph Ford: 0:24

I'm going to run through a little bit of your bio here and hopefully embarrass you a little bit with your accomplishments. But you hold a doctorate in clinical psychology from Indiana University, bachelor's degree from Vassar College, which I know well from having lived in that area for a while maybe I don't know too well, but I know where it's at. A well respected school. You were a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Pennsylvania, and at Case Western University School of Medicine. You taught at the University of Maryland and Bradley University before you came here to Penn State Behrend in 1993. A little bit more. Your work in the classroom has been recognized for excellence both at Behrend and across the university. Not only have you won our Council of Fellows Excellence in Teaching Award, but you were later selected and served as a Penn State Teaching Fellow, and we're going to dig into that a little later. You were appointed director of the School of Humanities officially in 2017. But you started in 2015 on an interim basis, and you're going to retire after 29 years this summer. So this is a little bit of a farewell conversation. Anyways, again, welcome, Eric.

Eric Corty: 1:35

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Ralph Ford: 1:36

Well, let's talk a bit about your background, how it shaped you and your career as a professor and administrator. So why did you ever decide you were going to study and research psychology?

Eric Corty: 1:48

I actually didn't plan to study psychology initially. I picked my college, Vassar, because it offered Chinese. I was interested studying Chinese. I was a table tennis player. And Nixon just opened China, by table tennis diplomacy. I wanted to get involved in that. So I went to Vassar. On to Chinese class on the first day learn Chinese is a melodic language. I am tone deaf. If you say something rising or falling in tone, it makes a difference. I couldn't tell the difference. And within a couple of days, I dropped Chinese. Had to pick up another course. And I remember talking to my mom over the summer about what I was taking that that fall. She said "Eric, why don't you take psychology? I think you understand people well." So I dropped Chinese, picked up Psych and got an A in Psych, my first semester, Bs in everything else. Psych is easy.

Ralph Ford: 2:37

That was the way to go. It's not easy, though.

Eric Corty: 2:41

No, it's not easy.

Ralph Ford: 2:42

And your parents were academics.

Eric Corty: 2:44

My father's a Ph.D. from Michigan, and undergraduate MIT, but he's DuPont Chemical Company. Mother an undergraduate degree from Radcliffe and a master's from Yale. She's a journalist. Distinguished line of scholars.

Ralph Ford: 3:01

Well they truly influenced which way you were going. And well, we're happy that you ended up here at Behrend, but I always like to hear, you know, what's the path that you took? How did you end up here at Penn State Behrend?

Eric Corty: 3:12

It wasn't a direct path. But my wife--we got married in 1985-- was working in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on a methadone research project is based in Baltimore, Maryland. Based in Philadelphia, and moved to Baltimore. So I lived in Baltimore for while we were first married. In fact we've been married for 35, 37 years. You've never got to think gainfully employed in the same state.

Ralph Ford: 3:40

Well, congratulations, first of all on what do you say? 37 years? 37 years.

Eric Corty: 3:45

Yeah. But I wanted to go academe. I started my first postdoc and took a job at Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois. Sarah quit her job, moved with me to Peoria and discovered there's not much for her to do there. So she got her PhD at Illinois State and took a job in Case Western. I quit my tenure track job at Bradley, moved to Cleveland with her to do my second postdoc. And the second year, the second of that postdoc, there's an opening here for one-year position, non tenure track, faculty placement. I applied. I took the job. And 29 years later here I am.

Ralph Ford: 4:23

Yeah. Worked out. Well worked out. Well. Now you've commuted then, so you're you live in Cleveland, right? You and your wife raised your children there?

Eric Corty: 4:31

Yes. I commuted for a number of years. We moved back to when I became chair of the psychology program. We moved here. Lived here for four years. And one of my sabbaticals we moved back to Cleveland. And I have an apartment here. Couldn't do the job of being director, without living here.

Ralph Ford: 4:47

Sure. Eric, let's talk about your your research. You look in in the field of psychology, in a field called psychometrics which is the development of measurable psychological variables. Tell us what that's all about.

Eric Corty: 5:02

Measurement is the most important part of science. You can't measure something, your knowledge is pretty thin. And so for example, trying to study how to reduce fevers or illness and people, if all we have is asking, do you feel hot, that's not very good measurement. But a hand to the forehead is a little, maybe a little bit better, more objective, and the monitors allow us to measure more accurately. And so if you're going to measure fevers to mothers or hundreds activate a measure that psychological variables depression or anxiety, or sexual function, we rely on people to self report, to develop a good measure of that is hard to do. So psychological variables very hard to measure, because there's no usual constructs, things you can't observe directly. Gravity is a construct, measure gravity indirectly by how things fall to the floor. And so second metrics is the science of measurement. As the basis I tell my students, it's the most important class in psychology will ever take.

Ralph Ford: 6:01

I think it is because it's so difficult, as you said, it points to the fact that it's a science, we call it a social science. And you have to not only be able to construct surveys understand how to do that you need a real understanding probably of statistics and how to analyze data and mathematics.

Eric Corty: 6:17

Correct. And psychometrics are concerns about reliability at the consistency of measurements. Ask somebody the question one day, How depressed are you? Ask the question the next day, you wouldn't expect a big change. If there's a change in the measurement, that's error. Try to get the error out of there. So measuring psychological variables is really a challenge.

Ralph Ford: 6:38

And I can tell you know, from working with you, that studying statistics and trying to glean information is something that you have a passion for.

Eric Corty: 6:46

I enjoy that. I like math.

Ralph Ford: 6:49

Well, you've done a lot of work in you alluded to are in the field of human sexuality. You serve on the editorial board for the Journal of Sex in Marital Therapy. How did you find that specialty?

Eric Corty: 7:01

It found me when I went to Bradley when the course I had to teach was a human sexuality course. I'd never studied human sexuality other than a normal adolescent boy interested in sex. Never taken a course in college or graduate school. So I had this course it was part of my teaching load. To have a member of the faculty tell me I can't teach there. I say, yes, you can, you can learn it quickly. So I remember my first day of teaching that for three hours once a week. I bought home 20 pages of notes. I read through them in about 20 minutes. I said, Okay, I know your questions. And luckily, there are no questions. Then someone asked me like, where did you say the uterus was in the male? I said well most males have the uterus on the left side. But occasionally it migrates to the right side. Made up some answer. No one had questions. I said see you next week. And went home told and told my wife we're leaving. This is a mistake.

Ralph Ford: 7:58

You said, I'm packing up my bags I'm done.

Eric Corty: 8:00

I'm done, this was crazy. But I worked at it and became better at it. And so that became an area of knowledge with me. My wife moved to Cleveland for her job at Case Western. There's a postdoctoral fellowship in human sexuality. So I did that for two years, worked with people on what shapes their genders, people with sexual problems in trouble with the law, people whose sexual functioning was disturbed also. So I kind of fell into that area.

Ralph Ford: 8:28

So you needed that extra time and that postdoctoral study really then made the difference for you. So you can come back into a teaching position?

Eric Corty: 8:37

Not really. It's more clinical postdoc to keep myself occupied off the streets out of trouble for a couple of years. Indiana was not a very clinical clinical psychology program. If you graduated Indiana, got your Ph.D. took a clinical job. You see the faculty walk up and down the hall. Where did we go wrong? So I did do clinical work for two years. It was very good for me.

Ralph Ford: 9:03

Well, in the in fact is, as you well know, we have a master's in clinical psychology here. And it's really important. There's a huge need for that right now. It's amazing post-COVID.

Eric Corty: 9:15

Especially now. Yeah.

Ralph Ford: 9:17

So I do want to stick with the the idea of human sexuality. You had a famous study back in 2008. Yes. And it garnered an awful lot of attention. In fact, it was even mentioned on the David Letterman Show. What was the study about?

Eric Corty: 9:33

This was a one-off study. I had the idea of asking a sex therapist how long sex should last. It wasn't an area of particular specialty of mine, just a curiosity. So I got a sample of sex therapists, from the United States and Canada. A representative sample. Less than four questions. What was an adequate time for sex to last from penis entry to vagina to ejaculation, what's a desireable time, what's too short, what's too long. They gave their answers and too short was less than two minutes and their opinion based on their clinical work. Adequate was three to seven minutes. Desirable is seven to 13. Too long, though, from 10 to 30 minutes. And this became a huge, popular article. And my favorite interview, this was some Spanish language television program, or radio program in Mexico, Colombia called brought me on. I speak no Spanish. So the host will speak to the translator, they translate the question to me, I speak back to the translator. The translation is fast, and the audience just burst into laughter. I have no idea what's going on. For like 15 minutes, I'd say something, they'd translate it, then they'd burst into laughter. You believe what the crazy gringo is saying?

Ralph Ford: 10:53

Well, how many times was the -- do you know how many times it's been cited? How many times it's been in the literature? Any idea?

Eric Corty: 11:00

I've not checked. A lot.

Ralph Ford: 11:02

Okay. A lot. Probably. Thousands is my guess. Yeah.

Eric Corty: 11:06

Newspapers and radio stations all over the world. India. Colombia picked it up. It was very, very popular. David Letterman, David Letterman made fun of it.

Ralph Ford: 11:18

So the that's your most popular, but there's a difference between your most popular and what you think your best research was? So what would you say your best research study

Eric Corty: 11:29

I think I think of two one was a study of was? clomipramine, which is a treatment for depression, which has a side effect of delayed ejaculation. We use that to treat rapid ejaculation. And that was I think my probably my best study. So the side effect of a drug and turn around use it for a therapeutic effect. Well, my second favorite study was my nephew, which was a way of calculating the sample size you needed to build a confidence interval for your results.

Ralph Ford: 12:01

They both sound like in the end, they had some practical impact as well. That really made a difference. Let's talk about -- let's go back to the teaching and the discussion we were having about teaching. So your first teaching experience was not so great. And I can also recall mine, by the way, which was right over in Turnbull Hall. Not so great, either, right. I wouldn't want a video recording of that.

Eric Corty: 12:25

Well with everything in my first year of teaching, one of the students in my class, wrote on my evaluation, I think you will be a good teacher, comma, eventually.

Ralph Ford: 12:37

He has the interest. Well, fast forward, and you've been recognized as a Penn State Teaching Fellow. So why don't you tell us what what does it mean to be a teaching fellow? And what's your what's your philosophy? How do you -- how do you teach?

Eric Corty: 12:53

First of all, it's a great honor to be a teaching fellow, as a Penn State-wide award. There are some 45,000 faculty members of Penn State, I think 6,000 now. To be selected out of 6,000, or 4,000, is really quite an honor. I believe in having enjoyment in the classroom, being humorous and light. But also, the challenge of teaching is taking something you know well, and finding a way to transfer it to people who don't understand it. And so, you know, so well, it's obvious I get from A to B. To someone who doesn't know it's like, A to B, is there are seven intermediate steps, what are they? So you have to take something that you know very well, and boil it down to a simpler way, or a memorable way, or a more complex way that actually take tells people how to do it. So that's the challenge,

Ralph Ford: 13:47

Do you have any particular examples of how you do that?

Eric Corty: 13:50

Sure. For teaching the normal curve, I had a friend build me a quincunx, which is a device for little like Plinko machine balls come down and they form a normal curve, that have this fairly large thing filled with BBs. Have the students guess what shape this can make as the balls come down one by one, as you watch them down one by one, they kind of bounce around on the pegs in very random pattern. And the student says I think it'd be flat. I think it'd be a smiley face. I think it will become a hill. And so then it turns out to be more like a hill more like a normal curve.

Ralph Ford: 14:27

It turns out to be the what we call Gaussian or normal probability distribution. Now for those in the audience who are wondering, a lot of you might know, but that's what we typically see in nature. So it's used all the time. It's also mathematically neat to use it and I've seen you run that demonstration. So it's one of those great examples where your intuition completely fooled you. And you end up with something very elegant.

Eric Corty: 14:49

Watch when the balls drop down -- so random. You think there's no way it's gonna form a pattern. It will be different every time. But it's consistently the same. Yeah.

Ralph Ford: 14:58

Yeah, it's a really neat experiment. So let's talk about your teaching over the 29 years. Sometimes we look back and we say, you know, when I was young things were different. And probably we're fooling ourselves. But what's changed in teaching? Have you seen differences in the students, the approaches to teaching,

Eric Corty: 15:16

I think technology has changed dramatically. And that changes everything, students are much more screen based. And much less note taking based. One of my favorite worst teaching stories a fellow faculty member has told me, that somebody saw a student who couldn't afford the book, eventually could afford a book and borrows a book from her neighbor, and just took what the neighbor had highlighted and highlighted the same thing in her book. That's not exactly the way to study.

Ralph Ford: 15:49

Imitation, you know.

Eric Corty: 15:52

You have to process this material and think about yourself. So I think our students are much more likely to take a picture of the screen with their phone, when the teacher writes on the board, and teachers are less likely to write on the board these days, much more likely to have PowerPoint slides. So I think you lose that step by step going through things, working it out.

Ralph Ford: 16:15

There's a lot of research that shows even for in a meeting, or you're sitting in a classroom that writing on paper or something approximating paper makes a big difference in the way we learn. Correct. And you just don't get that by looking at something and typing into a computer.

Eric Corty: 16:34

I think typing in he probably do get some of that. But I think just taking pictures of it you don't.

Ralph Ford: 16:40

You don't Yeah. So when you look at our psychology program, you know, what are some of the strengths? What would people learn when they're in our psychology program?

Eric Corty: 16:51

I think the most important strengths for a psychology program is a focus on doing research. Students have three research courses to take in a row, a stats course, basic research methods and advanced research methods, and the process that they carry out their own study. So learning how to do science is actually the best way to learn science as we learn the content of an area. I think that's our probably our biggest strength. I tell potential students that Penn State has different psychology programs at different campuses. Ours is the best. It's also the hardest, but it's the best. Here at Behrend.

Ralph Ford: 17:25

You know, what I love seeing is, you're right, that it's, it's really research based. And you can see it when you walk through the halls and you interact with the faculty and you go into the labs, you know, the work is highlighted prominently in the hallways and poster boards, your faculty and students go to conferences, I think you probably had I always say the psychology program here is probably the best at getting undergraduate research funds. And I mean that truly is a compliment. It means students are engaged.

Eric Corty: 17:56

We take it as a compliment. And we take the money.

Ralph Ford: 18:00

Absolutely. You should and you, you know, you got some nice labs, and you get some great work out of it. So how about topic wise? What are the things that the different areas that some student comes here? What do they get to study? Do they get choice in what they're looking at?

Eric Corty: 18:15

Sure, they can. There are possibilities of working with different faculty members who study different things. You have a couple of clinical faculty members who study trauma in particular, that's very popular these days. We do have a social psychologist, these says, developmental psychologists who study bullying in high school students, and middle school students. We have experimental psychologists study memory, and sarcasm. And students often have their own ideas and we support them doing their own their own research as well.

Ralph Ford: 18:49

A lot of important areas. And I mean that, really, if you if you look at that, it's really grown over into really well known Research Center we have here on campus, which is the Susan Hirt Hagan CORE. So why don't you tell us what that's about and the work that they do and how that evolved

Eric Corty: 19:05

That started many years ago with Carl Kallgren, a faculty member here, who was very interested in preventing teenage pregnancy. And Susan Hirt Hagen donated a fair chunk of money just for his work in that. It has grown to help positive youth development and mentoring programs where they do work in the community in schools, and community schools, to help students grow as well as they can and get adults involved in mentoring the students, in giving them role models, basically trying to get have our youth grown as possible so they can get as good of life as they can. Really tremendously important work. And in Union City they a couple years ago did a study and dramatically reduced the truancy rate and the dropout rate in Union City just by doing mentoring. That's a phenomenal program.

Ralph Ford: 19:57

Yeah, the impact they have. It's always amazing to see from when they started in teen pregnancy and the teen pregnancy rates dropped, and that impact on truancy. And now they're working a lot more with the urban school districts. So, not only are you of course, we're talking a lot about psychology, but the School of Humanities and Social Sciences encompasses a lot of different academic disciplines. Why don't you tell us about some of them? And why should a student or somebody study one of one of your majors in the School of Humanities.

Eric Corty: 20:28

Because for the most interesting school in the college. We have nine different majors you can have, through the more traditional majors, Psychology, English and History. Poli Sci, obviously, so four of them. Two of them were developed here, DIGIT and what used to be Arts Administration, developed here. We have Creative Writing, the only school only college and Penn State system, you get a bachelor's degree in creative writing. We have digital, digital arts, media and technology. So newest major, which is a fascinating, it's hard to describe DIGIT. Best I can do is basically just ask the questions humanities scholars ask all the time, but now do it in a different format, as with digital materials, video, websites, things like that. So it's a more interactive approach, not reading a book, but producing digital material. The school is kind of, I think, the liberal arts bastion of the college. And I think the arts give people a great idea of critical thinking. Communication skills are sometimes called soft skills of understanding people. Taking a literature course, reading great books, get an understanding of people, you don't get other ways. So even though it doesn't seem that it's pragmatic, in some ways, it actually is very pragmatic, because learning some very helpful skills to function on any job. My goal for the students is to be the thinkers and doers. To have the depths of history or poli sci, or psychology or English. Plus have some pragmatic applied skills, some coding skills, and language skills.

Ralph Ford: 22:10

So well said. I mean, we're in a world where popular culture sometimes just wants to devalue a higher education degree into where can you get a job afterwards. Now, that's important, and I talk about that quite a bit. But the thing that distinguishes a college degree, a Penn State degree, is every student who graduates from this University or from Penn State Behrend will go through your School of Humanities and Social Sciences.

Eric Corty: 22:33

There are several courses, a communication course, a public speaking course, two English courses, and other courses as well. There was actually a study done a couple years ago, looking at students 10 years after college, and look at their salaries, and compared to academic majors, like history or psychology or English, to more applied majors like engineering and business.There was not much of a different salary after 10 years, maybe$3,000 or $4,000 higher for the engineers and the business people. But that's not that far, 60 versus 63.

Ralph Ford: 23:08

Not that big a difference,

Eric Corty: 23:09

Not that big a difference. And interesting, both groups are equally happy in their careers. It's important to find something you want to do, and do that it's just as important as making a lot of money.To the students and H&SS, social scientists tend to have more of an impact on the world. So I tell the students come here and learn something, that'll help you be a leader, help make changes in the world.

Ralph Ford: 23:33

Yeah, one of the things you know, you also talked about the idea of where else would you read about great works of literature, and philosophical thought and figures in history. And I will tell you, those things have always intrigued me, and they were a part of my college career. And they, they really do make a difference in where you go. In fact, the things that matter more, because you're dealing with people all the time.

Eric Corty: 23:57

Correct. And literature is a great way to learn about people.

Ralph Ford: 24:02

Well, let's, let's switch to a few of your, I'll call them pet projects, okay. And I say pet in a nice way. And a good way. You've always, you know, you always come to me one of the things is Eric, you know, you show up in my office, or you call me say hey, I got an idea. Like, go ahead. Some of them have been a little off the wall--

Eric Corty: 24:24

Some of them have been.

Ralph Ford: 24:25

And some of them have really been off the wall and come to fruition in a good way. So I think we can joke about that. But one that you were passionate about is this idea of the color walk. What was the color walk?

Eric Corty: 24:38

project with us and the School of Engineering, plastics technology, to be specific, where we got a grant of an artist in from Cleveland, who developed these discs of different colors. With different shades of pink, that she stacked on rods, and hammered into the ground, and kind of wove it way through some trees. And engineering students were involved in the production of the discs at a great time for them. It blew their mind that she said, I don't want the same color every time. Make me different colors, this color variation is great. You sure? Shouldn't be the same color every time? No. Just throw some colors in there, I don't care. So they kind of got out of their very linear thinking and they enjoyed doing that. And yours Arts Administration people enjoyed setting it up and helping to build it It was up for about a year, nine months. Looks very nice in the snow, and lilies and different times just kind of meander through it and reflect.

Ralph Ford: 25:56

What was the reaction people had?

Eric Corty: 25:58

I think people were a little perplexed when it first went up, we got a sign up to explain what it was. People were like, what the hell is this. But it's kind of a little break from the day. Just go into the copse of trees and walk through there, meander and just take a thirty-second break and see some colors you don't see in nature.

Ralph Ford: 26:20

That was a great addition. And it made people think to your point, what is that? Why is it there? Where they come from? So they got to ask questions.

Eric Corty: 26:27

This is art?

Ralph Ford: 26:28

That's right. Takes all forms. Well, let's talk about another one of your projects, something called the mirror project. Now, this is a great idea. I didn't say hey, what what's that one that's, you know, it's it's a great idea. You've got a lot of passion. Let's hear about the Mirror Project.

Eric Corty: 26:44

The Mirror Project grew out of 0ne of my favorite podcasts by Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell had a podcast about the Brown vs. Board of Education decision in 1954. The result of this decision was schools were integrated. But they closed several schools in the South, the schools closed were the black schools. And the black teachers out of work had a huge impact on black unemployment and black middle class, but also a huge impact on the future of black students. That if a student doesn't have a teacher who looks like him, or like her, it is hard for that student to succeed. And so different studies for example, show fewer black students are in gifted programs than white students. It's not intelligence, it's not social economic status, it's how if you have a black teacher, a black student and black teacher, it's much more likely to be nominated for a gifted program than one who doesn't. So in Erie, 34% of the students in public schools are black, only 3% of the teachers are black. Let's have some chance of having a black teacher in elementary school. So if hundreds of students, thousands over time, it goes to school never meet teachers who look like that. So I call this the Mirror Project. I want to build a population of teachers who mirror the population of students. So we're trying to raise money for an endowment to give a student from the public schools, a full tuition for four years at Behrend to be an education major. Go back to Erie and teach school, over time. This is a slow project over time, the number of students who have black teachers will grow or teachers who are Muslim or any other immigrant community will grow. And that scenario will arise. More students will graduate from high school, go on to college. And economically you will thrive eventually.

Ralph Ford: 28:47

Well, you've got-- I'm gonna put you on the spot if you don't mind. I don't mind. I mean, you have, you've made a generous donation yourself.

Eric Corty: 28:54

I have. I've kind of, I have two donations. I have a $400,000 estate gift I've made to the Mirror Project. I also have challenged the Council of Fellows and anybody else I'll match their 50 cents on the dollar for every contribution they make to the Mirror Project. So far, some of those contributed $100,000. I've contributed $50,000, which is up to $167,000. Should be $500,000.

Ralph Ford: 29:22

That's a wow.

Eric Corty: 29:23

Yes, I've 127 still to go, 117 still to go.

Ralph Ford: 29:26

And I think we'll get there. If anyone's interested, call us.

Eric Corty: 29:30

Yes, exactly. Donate now.

Ralph Ford: 29:33

Well, let's talk about -- I'm going to switch subjects on you. You have Parkinson's.

Eric Corty: 29:37

I do have diseases.

Ralph Ford: 29:39

And you've had it for quite some time. In fact, before you became school director,

Eric Corty: 29:43

I've had it for about 11 years. I was first diagnosed and I was not entirely surprised I was diagnosed. I'd been having some trouble with my hands shaking. My typing was deteriorating. My voice was getting quieter and quieter. I went to see a speech person, ENT. She asked me has your handwriting always been this small? I should also say it's also a sign of Parkinson's. Yeah, it's always been this small. She said I think you need to see a neurologist. I see a neurologist and he had me do this thing where you circle your hands and cycle left hand one direction, right another. I looked down and my left hand was steady and my right hand was moving around. I was not aware of that. Right? That's not good. I was diagnosed as Parkinson's. And I always tell people, the fact that mostly my typing, my talking, two things a college professor does not need.

Ralph Ford: 30:36

The two things you really need.

Eric Corty: 30:37

Things you really do need.

Ralph Ford: 30:38

But you've managed. And you have stayed in the classroom?

Eric Corty: 30:41

Yes. Yes, I think is probably not be retiring now without Parkinson's. I probably would have few more years left. I think this is the time for me to exit gracefully. I still have some voice and I still represent the school. It's harder and harder to do that, though. I've made it my decision to retire now.

Ralph Ford: 31:02

Well, it's completely understandable. We appreciate all the contributions you've made as a teacher and as an administrator. Now, before we finish up, I have to hit one more subject with you. Which is there's a there's a very persuasive if I may say a book that is very influential. Not that you wrote that someone else did that you always recommend everyone else read and understand. Can you tell us about that one?

Eric Corty: 31:27

It's called Influence by Bob Cialdini, and Ralph have a present for you. If I could show you. Ralph, the fifth edition of Bob Cialdini's book Influence. And Ralph, can you open the cover and read the inside cover.

Ralph Ford: 31:38

Okay. I will open it. I was going to say I did buy a copy to read it when you recommended this to me five

years ago, but it says: 31:46

Ralph, please follow Eric's advice and read this book. He's rarely wrong. Cordially, Bob C. Aldini. Oh my God.

Eric Corty: 31:58

Yes.

Ralph Ford: 31:58

You had him. You know him personally. I thought this was your writing.

Eric Corty: 32:02

No, it's Bob Cialdini.

Ralph Ford: 32:04

What a nice gift. Thank you.

Eric Corty: 32:06

Sure. I think it's a great book. I think it's the best book on psychology ever written.

Ralph Ford: 32:11

Can you give people an example of what's it about.

Eric Corty: 32:14

Influence, how to get people to say yes, basically, hey, here's how to manipulate people. But I think by the whatever you want people to say yes to your projects. He has six simple ideas on his feeling of reciprocity. I've given you something. Now you owe me something in debt. And so reciprocity is a way to kind of work on that. There's liking. There's a famous car salesman, Joe, I forget his last name. Every year he sends to his customers. I like you, Joe Smith. I like you. And they came back and bought cars from him year after year. He likes you. He likes me. I like Joe too. A fascinating book.

Ralph Ford: 32:56

It's, you know, and to your point, influence and people may think of it as you know, in a negative viewpoint, but it isn't at all, we're humans, we have to work together, we have to get things done. And that's the way you do it is by influencing others.

Eric Corty: 33:10

You want to influence people to take to get vaccinated these days to get booster shots. Influence is important.

Ralph Ford: 33:17

You know, as we come to a close here, tell me what do you think, you know, what you're the thing you're proudest of in H&SS or here at Behrend. You get the last word.

Eric Corty: 33:27

I'm very proud that we've had seven fairly quiet years in H&SS. It has been a more coherent, cohesive group of people. We've worked together to develop a strategic plan, I think is a good strategic plan for the school. And, and of the art in the building, I'm proud of the art in the building also. I think the school has a bright future. We have many dynamic young faculty members who love great work. And I think I'm leaving it in good hands. I'm sure they'll pick someone good to take over and lead us into the future. And get more office space,

Ralph Ford: 34:04

And we will. Well, that's a great ending and you've had a tremendous career here and a tremendous impact. It's not over yet. Four more months. Well, my guest today is Dr. Eric Cordy, the director of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences, also a professor of psychology and a Penn State Teaching Fellow. I'm Dr. Ralph Ford. You've been listening to Behrend Talks