Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Tom Hagen, chairman of the board of Erie Indemnity Company, about the restoration and expansion of the Federal House, the new home for Susan Hirt Hagen CORE. Originally recorded June 1, 2022.
Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Tom Hagen, chairman of the board of Erie Indemnity Company, about the restoration and expansion of the Federal House, the new home for Susan Hirt Hagen CORE. Originally recorded June 1, 2022.
Welcome to Behrend Talks. I'm Chancellor Ralph Ford, and today I have a very special guest with me, Mr. Tom Hagen, Chairman of the Board of Erie Insurance. Welcome here, Tom.
Tom Hagen:Well, thank you. It's always nice to be back on the Behrend campus.
Ralph Ford:Well, yeah, as we know, you're one of our graduates and there is a very special event here today on campus. We're going to talk about all of it. But first, I'm going to embarrass you a little bit and talk about, you know, your background and some of the great things that you've done. Not only are you Chairman of the Board at Erie Insurance, you know, I always loved the story. You started in the file room at the beginning of your 40-year career, worked your way up. You retired as chairman and CEO. But you did a lot for the community as well. You worked with Tom Ridge, Governor Tom Ridge, and you were Pennsylvania's first Secretary of Community and Economic Development. And I would be remiss not to note that you went to Behrend from 1953 to 1955. And you've played a large role in the growth of this campus. You were on our Council of Fellows, you were chair of the board. And a few years ago, you received our top award known as the Behrend Medallion. So again, welcome here.
Tom Hagen:Well, as I mentioned, it's always nice to be back on campus. You mentioned that I started as a file clerk at Erie Insurance. And I was working there part-time while I was going here as a student full time. In those days, Behrend was then known as Behrend Center. And it was only a two year program. That was, it was a great time in my life.
Ralph Ford:It was near and dear to your heart, I believe based on all of our conversations. And you know, as long as we start there, you know, let's talk a little bit about where you grew up. I think you were born in Buffalo, you came to Erie, you ended up at Behrend. How did you come from Buffalo here to Erie?
Tom Hagen:I came here when I was seven years old. I was a fourth generation Buffalonian actually. But my I was raised by my maternal grandfather and my mother. And my grandfather was recalled to active duty in World War II in the Navy, as a naval officer. And he was transferred to Erie to be a field officer for the War Production Board. And so we came to Erie.
Ralph Ford:So, you know, when you were at Behrend, and you took a keen interest in history, probably it was there before. But you know, you had a favorite faculty member here?
Tom Hagen:I sure did. It was Tom Turnbull. And Turnbull Hall, the old Behrend Barn is named for him. He was, he was the best teacher I ever had, quite frankly, in college or high school or anywhere else. And he really prompted and encouraged, in many ways, my interest in history.
Ralph Ford:So your interest was there first, but he's the one who really drove it. So what was it? You know, if I go a little further, was he a great storyteller? What was it about him?
Tom Hagen:Well, you hit the nail on the head, he was a great storyteller. And, you know, he was a small man, unassuming, quiet. But he had what we call in the military "command presence," nevertheless. And he probably had that and that's why he was successful in the army. He was a paratrooper, came out of World War II as a Major as I recall. And was in some of the fiercest battles in Europe, in World War II. And sometimes he would recount some of those experiences. But again, it was the storytelling of history, whether it was his own experiences in World War II, or talking about the revolutions in Europe of 1848. He was a mesmerizing teacher.
Ralph Ford:And I know he inspired many, but he unfortunately died at a relatively young age as well.
Tom Hagen:He did. He did, unfortunately.
Ralph Ford:But we honored him here on campus. I think probably one of the first named buildings, Turnbull Hall retains that name to this day, you know.
Tom Hagen:And an interesting thing to me, as I think about it in older age. I have family, I think it's my about third grade grandfather's name was Turnbull. And he came from England. So I maybe have had some relationship to him, who knows, way back?
Ralph Ford:Well, I'll tell you, you know, one other piece, Thomas Turnbull's son, Craig remains very connected to campus here. And he says he grew up here on campus. And I hear from him quite often, and I think you know, him as well, too. So, you know, what was it like here on campus then?
Tom Hagen:Yes. Well, you know, you mentioned about him growing up on campus, and as I recall, the principal professors lived here. It was in some of the outbuildings of the Behrend estate, and so their families were here. When I was here, there were 100 to 150 students. And we occupied and utilized all of the Behrend buildings. And the only building that was added by Penn State was what was known then as Erie Hall, which is now torn down and you have a new Erie Hall. I don't know what it's been called.
Ralph Ford:Erie Hall. It is Erie Hall again.
Tom Hagen:But that was the new building on the campus. So we were occupying the estate of Ernst Behrend. Yeah, the female students actually lived in Glenhill Farmhouse. The faculty, as you said, lived in houses in and around campus at that time. And there are a lot of photos that actually have students and cleanup days and the like. Well, I can remember that the female students lived on the second floor of the Glenhill Farmhouse. And those were the days when there, were panty raids going on, and I remember a few of those occurring.
Ralph Ford:Different days, and they are now. And in fact, you even think about the fact that, you know, the young women were upstairs from administration. You know, just a completely different time, but a great time in our history. And a lot of people have so many fond memories. And you know, you just mentioned that about Erie Hall. It's amazing to me as well, how many of our alumni met their spouses there? That was like the social hub of campus. Dances, plays, everything else?
Tom Hagen:Yeah, yes, it was.
Ralph Ford:Well, let me switch subjects. Today, we are here. It's June 1, 2022, just to mark the date. And we had a dedication of this building that we're in, the Federal House. And of course, it's the new home of the Susan Hirt Hagen CORE. And for our listeners, CORE means Community Outreach, Research and Evaluations. Two important missions, community outreach, and really making sure that we do the research to make sure that what we're doing in the community makes sense. And Tom, it was named, of course, for your late wife, Susie, and her great passion for this, and helping. And her and Carl Kallgren were working to make this a reality many years ago. But today, here we are in this newly renovated building. And I like to paint the picture, we are sitting in the Federal House in this phenomenal conference room. And, you know, I think it's just worth talking about this room that we're in. How inspiring it is.
Tom Hagen:Well, yes, and no question about it. I think what is interesting to me is how you took out the second floor, and have reinforced the balls with steel, but you don't see the steel because they're encased in the second-floor floor joists. And it gives a soaring feeling to this room, because you see two levels of glass with draperies and it's painted in Penn State colors of blue and white. And it's a beautiful space. And it's enhanced with this marvelous walnut table and walnut floors that were made from a black walnut tree that was here on the premises and had to be taken down because of the construction that was going on. And so they utilized everything that was here on the site.
Ralph Ford:Yeah, it was really important. Behrend is an arboretum. And there was a lot of time spent looking at the trees on site. And unfortunately, we did have to take this one tree down, but it lives here in this room, in a very spectacular way. But not only that, when you look outside, there are mature trees that were able to keep here as well. And it really makes it just so inviting when you walk in from the parking lot.
Tom Hagen:It's a grand location on this beautiful campus.
Ralph Ford:Well, everyone knows that you've got this great interest in restoring historic buildings. And it was your vision to do something here with Federal House. It took a long time to happen. But where did this develop? Were you always looking at historic buildings when you were a kid. How did it how did this interest develop?
Tom Hagen:You know, I really don't know. I suppose it's the development of history. And my late father in law, HO Hirt, was always interested in architecture. And my close contact working with him over the years, I think really, that developed in me an interest. And looking out and making it a point to look at architecture. And so I think it was really as I think about it. The interest in the architecture part came from him, but he was also an historian. And so that coupled with my other interest in history, I think the two things came together. And then I lived in Newport, Rhode Island for three years when I was in the Navy. And there's some just marvelous architecture in Rhode Island and the neighboring Massachusetts and Connecticut. And traveled quite a little bit there in New England. And I have been England heritage in my family. So that kind of promoted it more and more.
Ralph Ford:Well then tell us about the Federal House style. What's unique about this? Is anything unique about this particular Federal House?
Tom Hagen:Well, what's unique is, and what called my attention to it years and years ago, when it was abandoned and overgrown, is that it is a five bay, brick house of the federal design, which was very plain design. But it's a brick house out here in Harborcreek Township, with nothing else around. I mean, yes, there is some development in the 20th century. But before that there wasn't anything else around here. Maybe a farm here, or there, or dotted around. And more than likely they were frame structures. And so this is a unique structure here on Station Road. And it's, I suppose it's probably about halfway between Erie and Wesleyville or that area and Colt Station, which Judah Colt, who was the first land developer in Erie County, set up shop when he first came to Erie County in 1795. And this house was built, I don't know 1830s, probably. But I noticed many years ago that it was deteriorating. And after the Smith family was very generous in contributed the land on which this building is located. Contributing it all to Behrend. I persuaded then Chancellor, John Lilly to save this building. And so it was, you might say mothballed. Jeff Kidder, who was a local architect today and was then with the Crowner King Architecture firm in Erie. And was employed to stabilize the building and restore the outside of it. The inside was just left open. And it stayed that way, I don't know, for at least 30 years, I think.
Ralph Ford:Yeah, 30 years. I think it's at least close, because I've been here almost that amount of time. And maybe we fixed it up early when I was here. I can't quite remember. Yeah, I know. I've seen the photos that Jeff Kidder has supplied. And I've never seen it in that condition. And it was really bad.
Tom Hagen:It was really bad. So it was great that it was saved and now it's put to this wonderful use of blending the old and new together. It's a perfect marriage.
Ralph Ford:Well, we are, you know, really blessed to have it. Thanks to your generosity. I'm just curious, you mentioned that this was a five bay house. What does that mean?
Tom Hagen:Well, it's the windows. There are two windows on either side of a senator door. So there are five as they architects call them, bays. So they're there 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 across the front. And so, oftentimes in townhouses, and you'll see this in Erie with a few, there'll be a three bay house with a door at one side and two windows.
Ralph Ford:I can tell you by modern standards, a five bay house is not all that large. And what we do know is that the Bonnell family, we believe, had built this or weren't early inhabitants. And they reportedly had 11 children here as well. It's hard to believe, well, it was a different time. And it was also reportedly part of the Underground Railroad. So a lot of history in this building. Let's talk about the work that you're doing down on quote, Millionaire's row on 6th Street in Erie, and you're you know, you're involved in with a whole lot of historic reconstruction there. What's going on there?
Tom Hagen:Well, I don't know how we really got started. Well, I guess I do. It started with the history museum, Hagen History Center, Erie County Historical Society at the Watson Curtsie Mansion. I got involved there with the restoration of the mansion. Think that was back about 2014. The house next to it was a law office. It was a historic house itself, Wood Morrison house built in 1858. And the museum really wanted to have that as part of the campus. So we worked on that and we were able to get that house and restore it. And then as you looked East you saw the rundown condition of two big duplexes on 6th Street, in the 300 block. And so one thing led to another. So we started acquiring those and restoring them. And then what about the houses down the streets and next door, on and on and on. And we had people come to us in some cases that wanted to sell their properties. And so we've acquired quite a few between about Myrtle and Gridley Park. And we're slowly getting them restored. In most cases, they are apartments. They were made into apartments, most of them around the time of World War Two, either just before or just after. There are a couple that are, you might say, single family houses because they're occupied by businesses, law firm, or financial services firm. And there's one house that will be kept as a single family house because it is unique.
Ralph Ford:So are you finding already people are moving in there?
Tom Hagen:Knock on wood. To knock on this wonderful black walnut, we've had no no difficulty attracting tenants.
Ralph Ford:Well, it's a great area to be and there's a tremendous amount that's going on downtown. And you've been involved with that as well, in terms of Erie Development Development Corporation.
Tom Hagen:Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because what this does is join what's going on in downtown's through the Erie, a Downtown Development Corporation, which I was involved with from the beginning. And then going east Erie Insurance, of course, has had a lot of impact all the way over to parade street. So all of a sudden, all of these things now are beginning to kind of run together. And we've got I guess, what satisfies me is when local folks come up and say thank you. Or when I meet somebody that is from Erie and has come back and hasn't been here in many years. They're kind of bowled over with what's going on in airy.
Ralph Ford:I'll tell you go down there. If you hadn't been here a few years ago, it's the whole downtown is being reconstructed right in front of us.
Tom Hagen:Well, you know, I often say that never in the 200+ year history of Erie, Pennsylvania, we, as the private sector, raised $27 million. And the private sector did that for the Erie Downtown Development Corporation. And that was the needed seed money to attract other outside investment. And we have outside investment into those projects. That hasn't happened. So it's truly amazing. And along with that outside investment, is investment (and it was just in the I think the Sunday paper) the investment that's going on in the affordable housing market at the Richford Arms Apartments. Yeah, and your housing authority is down there, the Methodist Towers, they're putting $20 million each into those projects. So that we're keeping the folks that are low income housing, we're keeping that there and supplementing it with activity now, that hasn't been there in a long, long time.
Ralph Ford:And there's even a new grocery store that just...
Tom Hagen:Finally. It's the co-op from 26th and brown Avenue and it has a satellite location there. And it's sorely needed because it's a grocery desert downtown or has been.
Ralph Ford:Now that's a great story. And I'll tell you, I think back to when I first became chancellor. You know, this was six or seven years ago. There's always been, you know, a great passion in this community. Everybody wants to help it move forward. But in my mind, there were some really important things that were going on. If you recal, of course at that time. Charles Buki, who is well known now in the area was an outside consultant. They've come in and really given us a wake-up call and said, "You need to stop, you need to change your behaviors here. You need to start investing, and you need to get serious and start with the downtown." And you were there. And I know you brought him. I remember it so well. It felt like history was being made. What's your perspective? That seemed to really get the ball rolling?
Tom Hagen:Well, you know, we've had many plans, community development plans, over the years. Charles Buki was the one that went public with it. He wasn't satisfied that city hall was going to accept it and put it on a shelf. He went public and went to the news media and said, "This is what you have to do." And quite frankly, he scared us tremendously because he said, "We need to raise $500 million from the private sector for downtown." And we thought that was crazy. But as we started counting things up, and the the programs or the construction that was going on between Erie Insurance and Hamot and other activities downtown. We were getting close to that. And now with the new downtown development going on, we're hitting that mark. I had the pleasure of having dinner with Charles Buki about a year ago. And I thanked him for kicking us in the butt. And that's what he did. And that's what we needed.
Ralph Ford:He was blunt, he was plain speaking. But even think beyond that. Now you can see it's now expanding down to the Bayfront. So you see investment going on in the Bayfront, hotels and entertainment, and we're going to connect it. I remember him saying "You're disconnected from the Bayfront." And that was key as well.
Tom Hagen:Well, and we always were disconnected because we had railroad lines there. Then we put in a road. But the road had the same effect as the railroad tracks. So now we're figuring out ways to get that connection to the waterfront. But what this has also done it has it has inspired now, leaders on the east side to do something about a renaissance on Parade Street. And so it's been inspirational. In more ways than one.
Ralph Ford:And it'll keep building and building and building. Well, let's switch for a moment back to your involvement here at Behrend. You're in a unique position in that you've worked with more chief executives, than probably many other people. by the way, dating back to Irvin H. Kochel and John Lilley.
Tom Hagen:Well, you know what, Irvin was going back..what five, including you?
Ralph Ford:it is Irvin would be five, including me, and there was one before him. So six, total.
Tom Hagen:T. Reed Ferguson was the first one. And he was here when I started as a student. And I met him. I didn't work with him, I was a student. But I knew him. And in subsequent years, he would come back and visit from time to time when Irvin was here, and I got to meet with him. I didn't really know him. So I've known all of the CEOs of Behrend from the very beginning.
Ralph Ford:Well, we appreciate it. And it's, well I wanted to point out a particular place too, because you knew Irvin. And, you know, as I go through some of the historical documents as well, one thing that he did that was interesting too, is he was the person that moved us from a campus to a four year college. And that was really significant. No one else in the university had done that. So he did that. And he also created what is now the modern day version of the Council of Fellows. And that group of community leaders, I cannot understate how important they have been.
Tom Hagen:And we kind of agonized over what are we going to call it? You can't call it trustees because the trustees are at the main campus of Pennsylvania State University. And finally, I think it was he that came up with the idea of using Board of Council of Fellows. And so that worked out very well, because we were called an advisory board before that. And nobody really wants to be associated with quote-unquote, advisory. But it is in effect that, but it gives it a little more, maybe prestige and being a Council of Fellows.
Ralph Ford:Absolutely. I can speak from, you know, the current day, you know, incarnation of the council. It is able to get really important business and community leaders, powerful alumni, and it's own incorporated 501(c)(3). And we have a board of directors. And even though it's, you know, maybe operated like a board of advisors, fundamentally. They think it is a lot more advice that you might otherwise not expect. So, and that framework was put in place way back then. And we continue to benefit from it. I'd like to talk about what, you know, if I'm reading my history correctly, you were involved, but you really started to get involved about the time in the late 70s and early 80s. And at that time, Behrend was in a transition. And John Lilley was coming in as, as the chancellor or provost. And dean at that point was the exact title. And it seems to me that that was kind of a point where you really started to get involved with Behrend.
Tom Hagen:Well, I did. Ted Junker and I had the final interview with John Lilley when he was being considered for that position. And I think John will tell you to this day, that was the assurances that we gave him. That we would work with him to move Behrend along. And we did, and that's really how I got involved. Because I promised, as did Ted, that we would do all that we could to help him. We had that obligation and we did it willingly. And I had a good time doing it. And as a consequence, John became a very, very close personal friend and still is. And I see him every summer when he's back here in this part of the world.
Ralph Ford:We know he wanted to join us today. And he couldn't. And, you know, I'll add one thing. When I was coming here and looking Behrend in 1994. And coming here from University of Arizona as a newly minted PhD, and having worked at IBM. I didn't know much about this place called Behrend. But I remember sitting in John's office, and what I do recall was him very passionately speaking about "come here, and we're going to continue to build this great place." And he had that effect on many. And he met with everybody personally, to interview them, to hire them, back in the day And he really was very powerful in building a vision.
Tom Hagen:Well, I might just add that he was indefatigable in his pressuring of University Park, on taking care of Behrend. And I knew some faculty members down there, somewhere on faculty senate, and they kind of complained that he was getting more than his fair share. Because he was down there all the time hammering away at what Behrend needed. And you can see it here on the campus. And the university rewarded him when he retired by naming the library after him. The new library.
Ralph Ford:Yeah, I think there's a culture that we've built here. And it's still I think, you know, I'm glad to say the same story today. Behrend is seen as a very special place in the university. And I say it's just been built on this culture of many great leaders who, and the faculty and staff. And it is seen that way in the university. Let's switch back to CORE and talk about the founding of CORE and, you know, Susie's (Susan Hirt Hagen) passion for it. And, you know, what was she thinking when she wanted to start CORE?
Tom Hagen:Well, I'm not exactly sure what got her engaged with Carl Kallgren, Dr. Carl Kallgren, on the faculty here. But she had an interest in teenage pregnancy, and trying to stem teenage pregnancy. Because she knew that what it led to was the kids dropping out of school as well. So how they came together, I'm not sure. But I know that they worked together for years. And spent a lot of time in meetings, and on the telephone, talking about organizational structure of it, and where they would reach out and where they would start programs, and so on. And it was a slow start. But boy, look at what it's done today. And you can speak to that better than I can. But it's an amazing operation. And I will say this, that she also was inspirational in a similar kind of organization getting started at her alma mater, Wittenberg University in Springfield, Ohio. It's more centered on community engagement by the students. It has its differences from the CORE here, but the purpose of it is the same. She had a passion for that sort of thing.
Ralph Ford:It may have been a slow start, but they really focused in the beginning on rural areas, and particularly teen pregnancy in rural areas. And I don't have the statistic in front of me, but it is impressive. And they reduced it by a significant amount within a decade. To attack a social problem like that, and make an impact in our county and surrounding areas, though, and that was just the the beginning. And that was kind of the first success. And then Susie made the large gift to endow and make sure that CORE would be operating in perpetuity.
Tom Hagen:Yes. And by, you might say occupation. She majored in psychology and a minor in sociology in college, but and then she went on to get a master's in Counseling. But she worked as a social worker in Cleveland. And so she understood the problems of families very much so. And that early work
Ralph Ford:It was her her passion to be sure...women's experience really influenced her in doing what was really kind of a life's work for her. issues and children. And then you look at what it's grown to today. And we still do work around pregnancy prevention, but the whole lot more. And we've started to focus on the Erie city itself, and working with a lot of our troubled youth here. And they, you know, have a lot of problems in terms of resiliency. They work with community schools, they not only help with the programs, but we evaluate the data. So it's a tremendous success.
Tom Hagen:She was also one of the early supporters and people involved in the organization of what is now SafeNet. That is a very important aspect of the social programming that is needed in the community. And I should say, any community, but particularly our community.
Ralph Ford:Well in this building that we're in here today, and that you've made happen. I mean, it was through your generosity. It's going to expand the scope of what they're able to do. You know, our director and co-director and James Hodge and Charisse Nixon. So what are your thoughts looking forward as you see this space?
Tom Hagen:Well, first of all, I know that Charisse worked closely with Suzie as well in her last days. And Susie had a very high opinion of her. I don't know that she knew James Hodge, but I'm impressed with what he and Charisse are doing together to move this forward. And I can't help but think that having a facility like this is a selling point for the various programs that they're looking to get in involved with. Because they're not just now in Erie County. And they're not just in Pennsylvania, they're in many places now. And you've got a great base here. And it's, and the important thing about it is it's university-based and research-based. And that's important, because you're dealing with facts and research and facts in the work that you're doing.
Ralph Ford:Yeah, as James said earlier today in one of our discussions, it's really making sure the research is driving what you should be doing, versus"Well, we think we ought to do this". So we're just going to go try it and see what happens. It's harder. It takes more time. But that's what you really have to do to be effective, right? And, you know, the other thing that I love to see. It's more apparent already in this building, as I walk around is the students. We've got spots for like 10 or 15 students to work downstairs.Hearing their stories. I run into the more now than when the old facility. It was, frankly, quite a bit harder. So that's an important part. Students are part of the research.
Tom Hagen:Yeah, well, and you mentioned the old facility. When you think about it, that small house on Jordan road. It's come a long way, a long way.
Ralph Ford:That was the Balmer house, another famous Behrend faculty member. Well, you know, if Suzie could see the work that's being done by CORE in this building today, you know, what do you think her reaction would be?
Tom Hagen:I think she'd just be speechless at seeing what is going on here. And and I hope having the pride of what she really was instrumental in helping create.
Ralph Ford:That's a great ending. Is there anything else you'd like to add today, Tom?
Tom Hagen:No, I think we've had a good wide-ranging conversation and I'm glad to do it and glad to be here.
Ralph Ford:Well, thank you. This has been a wonderful conversation. I'm Chancellor Ralph Ford, you've been listening to Behrend Talks. My guest today has been Tom Hagen, the Chairman of the Board of Erie Insurance. Tom, thank you.
Tom Hagen:Thank you.