ROI and the College Search Process with Andrea Konkol

Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Andrea Konkol, director of enrollment management, about the importance of return on investment when considering a college or university. Originally recorded February 7, 2023.

Transcript

Dr. Ralph Ford: 0:05

Hi, I'm Dr. Ralph Ford, Chancellor of Penn State Behrend and you're listening to Behrend Talks. My guest today is Andrea Konkol, Director of Enrollment Management here at Penn State Behrend. Welcome to the show, Andrea.

Andrea Konkol: 0:16

Thanks, Dr. Ford.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 0:17

Well, you oversee our admissions and financial aid offices and you are a member of the senior leadership team here at Behrend. You have a really unique vantage point because you work with our students, their families during their college search process, when they decide Behrend is the right fit for them. And actually, really, quite fittingly at graduation at commencement, you get to say their names so you could see them from beginning to end. And that's just a little bit of what you do. But again, welcome here. Let's talk today about the importance of fit and the many factors that make the student feel at home at a college campus, but particularly here at Behrend. And you are a Behrend graduate. So you have a new unique viewpoint. You earned a bachelor's degree here as well as your MBA. So let's talk about what made Behrend the right fit for you.

Andrea Konkol: 1:07

Yes, I guess you could say I was born into it a little bit. I grew up on this campus. My dad, Dr. Larry Eckroat, was a faculty member here for 30 years. So I grew up, spending my summers in the Nick Building labs and riding my bike on campus. So I always knew Penn State was in my future. But as far as which campus I would attend. I had originally thought that I was going to go to University Park. I ended up a lot of my friends were coming here to Behrend. I graduated from Seneca High School. So a lot of students chose to stay local. I decided to come to Behrend. I was planning on doing the 2+2 program. Actually, the major that I originally applied for was Health Policy Administration. So that was a program to be finished at University Park. I ended up starting here at Behrend. And as so many of our students do, you fall in love with it and end up really connecting and wanting to stay. So I ended up staying, getting my degree in Management Information Systems, which was kind of an interesting choice. After the health policy administration, it was the late'90s. And it was on the rise. So I knew it would be easy to get a job with that degree. And I liked it.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 2:27

You know, and at that time, in the late 90s, I remember MIS was the largest major here on campus. I mean, it was huge, like 200 students graduating every year, if I recall. And who is your favorite faculty member or members? Can you say?

Andrea Konkol: 2:41

Yeah, so a lot of faculty members in business were memorable, I have to say, and I get to work with her to this day, Dr. Diane Parente, had her strategy class was definitely a challenging one. She's a tough cookie, but I learned a lot in that course. In my MBA program, one of my favorite classes was an entrepreneurship class with Dr. Jim Fairbank. And he is he's still there. But I have to say as far as faculty members that really made an impression on me, it was actually the first course I ever took here at Behrend. I always okay at math, knowing that I had to get through calculus, like kind of bit that off during my first summer. So I started in the summer right after I graduated. And Dave Falvo taught that course, and just an awesome math educator and really made an impact on me. I knew it was going to be challenging. And he really helped me through it and kind of set the pace for my experience here at Behrend.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 3:49

Yeah, Dave Falvo, for those who don't know, but maybe a lot of our alumni do. He was just a special human being, a wonderful faculty member. He unfortunately, passed away too early and left a huge legacy here on this campus. Well, after that, well, first I'll go back a little bit, I will say you mentioned and you brought up your your father, I remember him a little bit, you know. He was a senior faculty member when I was a young faculty member here, he seemed to intimidate me a little. He didn't mean to. He's a very nice gentleman, but he couldn't convince you to study biology, which was his field of study.

Andrea Konkol: 4:26

You know, he did try to nudge me a little bit towards the sciences. So I mentioned the calculus course. So I didn't need to take math 140, which is the calculus for science students. He said, take that math course because it'll keep your options open for the sciences. And he did have me take biology 110, which is the intro course for biology. So just try it. Anyway, I liked it. I liked it well enough. But you know, my brother is also here. Now as a faculty member he did. He did follow the sciences. So he did the biology and the chemistry dual major and he's here at Behrend. Now as well in chemistry.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 5:06

Well, we each have to find our own way. Well, after you graduated, you stayed here you joined our admissions team more than 20 years ago as an admissions counselor and Information Specialist. Why did you make that choice?

Andrea Konkol: 5:20

So when I was a student here, I did an internship at Erie Insurance. And I was in their IT division. I was a basically a computer programmer applications analyst, I think was was my title. And programming was okay. But I really missed people and working with people. When I was a student here. I was a lion ambassador, I was a tour guide, I worked in the registrar's office. So that strengthened my connection to Behrend. And just by chance, I saw an advertisement in the newspaper for this position. I thought, well, that's really interesting. They were looking for somebody that could work as an admissions counselor, but also help out on the IT, and data side of things. And it was just the perfect fit for me. And the rest has been history.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 6:14

You got to work with people, but you said you used your MIS and information systems background. How did you use that in that career. What were you doing?

Andrea Konkol: 6:26

So I was doing a lot of data and reporting. And, you know, to this day, I think about the database courses that I took in a one-to-one relationship, or one-to-many in the way to pull data, so that we're making sure that it's accurate. So data was a huge part of that, and just being able to quickly pick up and understand, you know, Penn State's complicated place. We have data in a lot of different places. So just being able to quickly pick up and understand and how to relate that to other people, I think was an important skill to have. Hugely important.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 7:02

Well, you then became the associate director. So you worked your way up. And, you were in that position for many years. But then after the retirement of somebody who you know, who was a legend, and that's Dr. Mary-Ellen Madigan, who ran the admissions office for many years, you were named Director of Enrollment Management. And not only that, that transition occurred at one of the most interesting times in our recent history, which is during COVID. And, you know, there was just a lot going on. So talk a bit about that transition about coming into this leadership position. And all that was going on in higher Ed at that time, which isn't so far away.

Andrea Konkol: 7:42

Sure. So yeah, I was really fortunate to work with Mary-Ellen for so long. She was a great mentor. And as you said, a great friend as well. And we knew her retirement was was coming, she decided during COVID That she was ready. And so we really had to figure out how to work in this admissions world in a virtual way. So we were, as so many of us did on campus, we flipped the switch really quickly. We figured out how to do that. And it's been different since COVID. So the way that we work is different. I mean, virtual events are a normal thing now. So and it's changed the way we work with our international students, the way that we work with our students from out of state. So students from California, Florida can join a virtual tour now. And so the way that we work is completely different. I would say coming out of COVID, we're starting to really see things return to normal now. So it did have an effect in that 2020 year. Students, at the last minute, changed their mind about where they were going to attend, or decided to opt out of college altogether. And we're really seeing, I mean, through 21 and 22, and this year, really that that trajectory is starting to turn around.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 9:02

Now it's really nice to see the world is"returning to normal" in that regard. And we are seeing that, and we're seeing that across the board. But let's talk a little bit about international students. I will tell you, I recall, you know, this brings back the memories. You know, the international students had a particularily difficult time because many of them were caught on campus. If you remember, they were living in the residence halls for a long period of time, and we were delivering food and they were here, you know, all alone, but we were, you know, providing all the services that we could. And then once they left, it wasn't so easy to get back into the country. But now are we seeing a return of international students?

Andrea Konkol: 9:38

We are. So and I think if you look at the data nationally, international students are starting to not only re-apply at the same rate, but their ability to get here to the United States has returned. So right after COVID, especially in 2021. it was hard for students to even get visa appointments or to be able to travel outside of their country. So students in China were still under lockdown, and were not a able to travel. So even though they might have applied and been admitted here to Behrend, they weren't able to make it to us. And so we're really seeing a lot of those things starting to ease up. I'll say that prior to COVID, a large part of our international student population was from China. And we're actually seeing different countries starting to come into the mix. So we're starting to see more applications from India, from the Middle East, from some countries in Africa. So, so far this year, international applications look really great. We're seeing a lot of good interaction with them. We work really closely with our student affairs team to be able to communicate with them and make sure that they're ready for arrival. And I think that helps to alleviate some anxiety, especially coming out of COVID. Knowing everything that happened that really, once they get to Behrend, we're here to support

Dr. Ralph Ford: 10:59

You know, we have so many wonderful them. international students. And to see them come here and connect and fit in. It's just always a joy to watch. But yeah, me thinking as well. We've also seen students come here from South America, Colombia, I recall for a while we were really doing quite well. And I think we still get students from Colombia. Well, you know, let's talk about costs. And some of the ways that we can address this. There is obviously a large concern, a student's decision and their parents. And so the lower the cost, the better. We hear it in the news every single day, we're going to talk a lot more about that. But we have a lot of initiatives going on, including things such as the Discover Penn State award, Raise Me transfer programs, those are targeted for particular students. Give us some perspective on you know, what we have to offer in terms of scholarships, what are some of the innovative things we're doing right now?

Andrea Konkol: 11:52

Sure. So as we talk with families, there are a lot of things that are top of mind when they're making the decision about where they're going to attend. And number one is always cost. So there are a lot of factors that bring students to us. So things like our academic programs, or location. or size. But when it comes down to a student actually making the decision about where they're going to attend cost is often top of mind for families. So Penn State does have some scholarship programs. The Discover Award is a scholarship program for students that live in contiguous states. So states that border Pennsylvania, along with Virginia and DC. That scholarship is, it doesn't quite make up the difference in out of state tuition. But it's a good incentive for students to attend a Penn State campus. It's only available at campuses other than University Park, so at the commonwealth campuses. And then Raise Me is a scholarship program specifically for transfer students from community colleges in the state of Pennsylvania. So, you know, for a long time, we've had a good relationship with Butler County Community College, especially in our engineering programs. We have a new community college here in Erie. So this scholarship, a student creates an account with Raise Me and they can earn dollars for getting good grades or participating in clubs and organizations. And this has really been kind of a change. We haven't had a lot of scholarships that have focused solely on transfer students. And we know that students choose to go to community colleges for various reasons. We saw a lot of students, for example, we were talking about COVID, during COVID That said, "Oh my gosh, I need to step back, I'm gonna stay home and attend a community college". And this is really giving them a pathway to get to that four-year degree.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 13:51

And is it significant? The amout? It makes a difference what they can raise?

Andrea Konkol: 13:55

Yeah. So three raise me students can earn up to$4,000.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 13:59

Wow, that's significant. Well, let's also talk about the cost though and the cost to come to Behrend. Do we do this thing everyone talks about called discounting?

Andrea Konkol: 14:09

So at Behrend, we are part of a university that is committed to access, affordability and keeping our tuition low. So if you look at the sticker price of Behrend versus a regional private institution, you'll see that our sticker price is going to be lower. But many institutions what they do is they will offer a student a scholarship and it'll be a significant scholarship. So $15,000 $20,000 right off the top, most students will be offered a scholarship of that amount. And at Behrend because our sticker price is already lower. We don't do that. So students that are being awarded scholarships here at Behrend are being awarded scholarships due to merit. Sometimes it's a combination of merit and financial need. And financial need would something that we determined through them filling out the Free Application for Federal Student Aid. So students that are receiving scholarships here at Behrend, they're going to be a smaller amount. So our average scholarship amount is $3,000 to$4,000. And it's not that huge, discounted scholarship of$15,000 to $20,000. So it's not that we ever want a student less than those institutions. It's just part of our process.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 15:33

The reality is we know we've looked at the numbers, when you look at the cost, we still then usually come out lower. Yeah, I think it's an important point to make. And, you know, when students and families are looking at coming here, how do they figure out the real cost? I mean, do we give them a sheet of paper that says, here's what it costs to come here? And is it accurate?

Andrea Konkol: 15:53

Sure. So through the admissions process, we do try to educate families about this, we tell them, you know, you are applying to multiple schools, and most students, the average now is students are applying to six to eight schools. So we tell them when they come and visit us early on in the process, "hey, you know, get a notebook, create a spreadsheet and really outline these things. So when you hear back from the schools that you've applied to put it all into a spreadsheet, what's the tuition what financial aid might you have qualified for? Whether it be federal or state loans, grants, work, study programs, and then any scholarships that you might get? And what's the bottom line?" And so for a lot of families, actually seeing that bottom line number can be really enlightening. They feel like those big scholarships are getting them to a smaller net cost. But when you actually figure it out, Penn State Behrend oftentimes is the lower cost option,

Dr. Ralph Ford: 16:53

it's important to look at that. And then, you know, you you add, we talked about why do students come here. And we will get into all of the things like the great campus and athletics programs that are important. They're what leads so to speak, right? You've got to have good programs to attract students. And those programs drive their career opportunities. So we often talk about this idea of return on investment. So talk a little bit about return on investment. And, you know, what's that mean, in terms of a college education?

Andrea Konkol: 17:23

Yeah, so I think we have a good story to tell there with return on investment. There are many parts to that. So a lot of the studies that you'll see, rankings and things like PayScale, they're looking at net cost of attendance, and then the total earnings in a student's lifetime. So that return on what you have invested, as far as the cost of attendance. So one of my favorite ways to think about return on investment. This is actually something that Eric Barron, who is the past president of Penn State, one of the ways that he described it. And I, a lot of times will, as I'm sitting with a family say it this way. He described Penn State as a blue and white Corvette. And students don't drive that at full capacity. And so that's one way to think about return on investment. You're investing in this Corvette, this Penn State education. So take advantage of all of the things that are available. So at Behrend, we talk a lot about our open lab experiences. Those are ways to drive that Corvette at 100 miles an hour. Take advantage of an open lab experience or study abroad, or clubs and organizations become a leader in a clever organization. Those are things that look great on a resume after graduation. So your return is not only what you're investing in a monetary way, but what you're taking with you after you graduate.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 18:53

When you and your staff or your admissions counselors are meeting with prospective students, and it's early on, what are the sorts of questions? what what are the decision factors that are out there in their mind that you're trying to help them with?

Andrea Konkol: 19:06

Yeah, so what brings a student to Behrend, I would say, are two things that we probably have already mentioned. One being academics, the other being location. Size is a really big factor for a lot of our students. Behrend is a great option within Penn State. We often hear students say, you know, I went to visit other schools or I went to visit University Park, I got out of the car and it just didn't feel right. So that fit is a huge part of it. And then students You know that this is the place? Well, when you talk to students, start thinking about well, can I see myself here? What will I get involved in? Can I live on campus? Can I commute from home? We have a lot of students who are from the local area, and that's something that they want to be able to do. We have students from our local area that live on campus as well. So having options, I think, is really important and that fit is huge too. I mean, you get out of the car, and you'd kind of just know. have they changed notably, in the 20 years you've been in this business? And if so, in what ways? I think I've changed in the 20 years. So that's good. When I started out, you know, I was almost the same age as the students that I was meeting with. And now I find myself relating more to the parents. But I will say, I think students I mean, you must run into is not everyone should go to college. being more anxious about the process, and wanting to know that they're going to be okay. And then I think parents have become more focused on outcomes. So is my student going to have a job when they graduate? So I think more than ever, we're being asked about, what are the job opportunities? How are you going to help my student be employed once they graduate from Penn State? So I would say outcomes really, for parents has become important. For students? I think they want to know, how And it's not for everybody. So you must put in the case where are you going to help me with this transition? you talk to students, and you ever counseled them and say, maybe you got to look at a different opportunity. You're maybe not ready right now. Yeah, I think that's really important for us, as admissions counselors, I mean, counselors, that's the key word there. We want to be able to really work with a student and a family to find the best fit for them. I have, I don't know if I should, should tell you this, but I have, okay, you know, told students that Behrend might not be the right fit for you. But XYZ institution has a program that I think works for you. And that's important for us to be authentic, and help students through that process. I mean, building that trust is what is important for families. They want to know that their student, again, that whole idea of like being taken care of, and there's this safety net, that we're being authentic with them.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 22:16

Well, I think we have to be authentic, because one of the important factors is we want our students to graduate on time. We have to have a belief that every student who comes through the front door has the ability to graduate within four or five years. And that's really important. Some of them do it in three years, but they're the exception. So what are the things that we do to help them be successful and make it out of here on time?

Andrea Konkol: 22:38

Yeah, so we always want to recruit to retain, right. So we want to match the students that are great fit for Behrend. And then once they get here, help them through that process and help them to make it to graduation. So I get to say their name, they walk across the stage. So there are a lot of things built in through the admissions process, really, throughout that entire senior year process when they're applying. And then deciding on Behrend. We start communicating with them about all of the things that they need to be doing, making sure that they have a checklist. They know what are the next steps. We really in the past couple years, I've started doing that a lot with parents as well. Parents want to be involved in this process. And we want to make sure that they're there to support their students. And then, once a student decides to enroll, they start the new student orientation process, which really, again, we're preparing them to be a Penn State student. Or the student affairs office has a lot of initiatives as well, like the Care Team and the First Six Week Initiative. They've started something new this year called The Behrend positioning system, which is really for first year students, again, to make sure that they're well connected, that they know about all of the supports that are available. We know retaining them through the first year is the most important step. And so really, we're trying to build those supports into everything that we do from the very start of the admissions process.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 24:13

Yeah, it's really key to make sure that a student is successful in the first year. And in fact, you mentioned this idea of Six Weeks Initiative. So why six weeks?

Andrea Konkol: 24:23

Yeah, we know that those first six weeks whether a student is showing up to their classes, whether they're doing well how they do on that first exam. And so the first six week initiative, really helps to make sure that students are being successful in those first six weeks that we are reaching out. You know, I've heard a lot of great stories from the team that is part of this, that they're out knocking on doors in the residence halls and making sure that students are okay. And I think that's a really important thing for people to know that here at Behrend, we're going to make sure that your student is successful and help them through that process.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 25:04

Yeah, that's something we changed in the last few years. If you're not showing up to class, someone's going to reach out and say, "hey." Now we can't make sure that you do. But we can do at least our best to make sure that you're showing up and trying to find out why you're not. And you know, we talk a lot about the academics and the programs, rightfully so. But it's the on-campus experience as well, that matters. And everything from intermurals, clubs and, you know, we've got eSports on campus, athletics and the like. Is that a real important factor in the students decision?

Andrea Konkol: 25:33

It is. So one of the things that we started brand new this year in admissions is we partnered with a company called Welcome to College. And it's allowed our student ambassadors to create profiles, answer some questions about why they chose Behrend, tell students the things that they are interested in. I think it's really important for students can come in and sit with an admissions counselor, and we can talk to them for a half hour, make them feel comfortable, but it's really connecting with our students. That's the important part of this. So being able to see, yeah, that student is from my hometown, and they're involved in all of these activities. They're doing an internship, or hey, that student looks like me, and they're being successful, is a really important part of the process.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 26:26

You know, we're always trying to figure out what are those important factors in terms of how a student looks at us and looks at the institution. And we did a study with a group out of New York City known as Whitman Insight Strategies. But the important part of that was we learned actually a lot from talking to our prospective students about what's important in their choice when they look at us. Particularly as an institution, everything from rankings to the fit and everything else. Can you talk to that?

Andrea Konkol: 26:53

Sure. So the WINS study, the Whitman insight study was really exciting to be a part of, when I started in this role, one of the things we knew is that we had a really great product, but we didn't know if the way that we were communicating about Behrend resonated with our audience. So the wind study allowed us to find out exactly what was in the minds of our student and you mentioned rankings. So one of the reasons why Behrend even came on the radar for some of the students that we interviewed was actually rankings. So seeing Behrend in something like US News and World Report was a way that they found us. And then beyond that, they kind of start refining and thinking about, as we talked about fit already. So location, size, academics are a huge part of that. Making sure that we have academic programs that are important for the market right now. That's all very important. Coming out of the WINS study, were really three things. So right fit opportunities, and then the value.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 28:07

And they really do matter. And I think that they're in a lot of the discussions that we have with our prospective students. Well, we're coming to the end of our time, but I've got a few rapid-fire questions for you. These are the things that they're the "How To" for students and parents when they're starting their college search. So how many schools does a student typically apply to?

Andrea Konkol: 28:28

So most students applied to six to eight schools now, and that's changed it. So it used to be about two to three. So 10 years ago was about two to three schools. So students really are applying to more schools now.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 28:39

When should they begin looking?

Andrea Konkol: 28:41

So early high school, I think students should start thinking about the types of majors that they might be interested in the types of schools that they might be interested in. Start working with your guidance counselor early on in a student's high school careers, when they need to start thinking about am I scheduling the right math courses, if thinking about being an engineer, making sure that I'm taking all of the math courses that I might need for that is important early on in high school. And then I was a junior year, start thinking about visiting schools, and then really getting down to the core of application process that would start early on in the senior year.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 29:18

And when they fill out that application, is there something they should be thinking about or anything that makes them stand out? What are your secrets to the application process?

Andrea Konkol: 29:26

So for Penn State, I will say that the most important factor is student's cumulative record in high school. So one class isn't going to make or break the application. We want to see a student's progression through their high school career and how hard they have worked during high school. One of the great things about Behrend is that because of our size, we can take a little bit closer look at a student. So one of the things we saw during COVID Is that students had one bad year through COVID. They were doing their virtual instruction. So we can always go in and take a closer look at the student.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 30:03

So we take a nice holistic look At the record versus trying to focus on a singular number or whether they wrote a great essay. Okay. Well, what's one thing that parents and students should be thinking about the question that they should be asking that maybe they aren't?

Andrea Konkol: 30:20

question that they should be asking that maybe they are, I will say that don't be afraid to ask questions is what I will say. So family has a lot of times that they'll call us in the admissions office, and they'll say, I'm so sorry to bother you. But that's what we're there for. So we are really there to help them through the process. So don't be afraid to ask the questions.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 30:43

That is great advice. And I must say, I've seen your whole staff in action. They're a pleasure to watch and they love what they do. And they love talking to people they love as answering questions, and also thinking about new ways to interact with students and their family. So it's not just the static process that you see here. Any last thing that you would like to add today?

Andrea Konkol: 31:02

So I will just say that one of the things my office loves to do, is greet visitors and see families on campus. So come visit us. We have all of our visit opportunities on our website, but we're happy to put something together individually for students. That's the best way you can figure out if there is the right fit.

Dr. Ralph Ford: 31:21

All right, great advice. Well, you have been listening to Andrea Konkol, the Director of Enrollment Management here at Penn State Behrend. I'm Chancellor Ralph Ford, and this is Behrend Talks.